in a slow growth environment, but they've kept interest rates very low in japan, but the problem is, government is too big. that's why japan has not been able to start growing again. and this is the path that the u.s. is certainly on if we don't change that dynamic. >> paul: kim, is there any recognition about this in washington or is it all -- i mean, do you hear any of this discussion or do they really believe, certainly, the white house and the treasury, that tax rates like this don't matter, at that ultimately-- >> no, they do to a degree. if you talk to the officials iran up, come on, so we're going to raise the rates, what is fascinating to put it in the bigger context of the debate about tax revenue, the economists have the static view, you've got x-amounts of capital gains income and you get 20% more tax revenue. >> you don't, because people decide to shelter it. they do their transactions the year before, when the amount is less. and so, all of these numbers that the white house is counting on and sort of rubbing its hands together hoping to get. they're not going to get an
